Dialogues from Beyond the Grave: From Revenge to Brotherhood
Through a TikTok contact, a young woman living in Portugal asked for help with her case. She said she was experiencing disturbances in her home, with physical manifestations, leaving her tormented. Without gathering further details about the case, we decided to question the Spirit Friend, the Spirit who introduced himself as our group's guide, who recommended a direct conversation with the Spirit in question:
First dialogue
1. Evocation
A: Here I am.
2. Hello friend, welcome to our midst. First, we would like to know what we can call you?
A: You want to ask, then ask.
3. Okay, we'll ask. We'd like to understand your motivation for being there and whether you're the one causing the physical manifestations.
A: Yes, I did.
4. What is the reason?
A: The charge. I want her to remember what she did.
5. What did she do to you, was it in this present life, or in another incarnation?
A: In another one.
6. We don't want to judge you; we don't know what we would do in your position. We'd like to understand what happened.
A: She mistreated me. She knew I had difficulties. Still, she mistreated me.
7. What position did you occupy? In social terms, were you subordinate to her?
A: I was her son. She never treated me with love.
8. This must have caused you a lot of difficulty during your life.
A: Lots of beatings. Lots of humiliation.
9. Do you remember if in this previous incarnation, you, as a spirit, had chosen this environment for some reason?
A: We were supposed to have a balanced life.
10. Do you remember if you had a connection with her in the life before this life?
A: Yes. We always had problems. She promised that this time she would love me. I know the situation wasn't good, but I wasn't to blame for the choices she made. I just needed to be born, and her only responsibility was to love me so I could understand a little more about love. She neglected herself. She neglected herself... and only brought me suffering.
11. There is another spirit related to this story, acting there, isn't there?
A: Yes.
12. Do you know who he is?
A: I just know he's not good. No.
13. Don't you know him?
A: No.
14. Why do you say he is no good?
A: Because I run away from him.
15. I see. Does he have good intentions? And you didn't quite get it?
A: I don't know.
16. I want you to forgive us for any misdirected questions. […] You realize that she suffers today possibly because of these choices she made due to these trends.
A: I understand the suffering. But she deserves it.
17. She suffers the consequences of her choices. But are you happy still being around her?
A: I just wanted her to love me. But if she suffers in some way, I'm happy.
18. In what way will you make her suffer by doing these demonstrations in her house?
A: Not giving peace. Not giving quiet.
19. There is a big difference between happiness and joy […] Do you agree with this?
A: I don't know, I think I need to think about it.
20. This realization is in the principle that Spiritism teaches us […] Can you perceive these spirits?
A: Yes, they are here, yes. You can see it. I have to think about all of this.
21. We hope you feel comfortable among us […] maybe helping?
A: I think I understand a little of what you're saying. You can call me Carlos.
22. Thank you, Carlos. We never lack intuition, if I speak correctly, it's because of the good spirits that are with us. Never forget them.
A: I'll think more about everything you told me.
23. And we hope that on future occasions we can talk a little more with you.
A: I hope we can meet again, yes. So we can talk better.
Second dialogue
1. (To the Friendly Spirit) I would really like to know, if possible, we would like to talk to Carlos again, the spirit was participating there with M…
A: Carlos. He is here present.
2. Carlos, our friend, we want to welcome you back with open arms. And we'd like to know how you're doing after our last conversation.
A: A little more enlightened. But I'm not 100 percent convinced.
4: It's part of it. OM… tried to call you in his group. Did you not want to or could you not communicate there?
A: I didn't want to.
5: For what reason?
A: I was going to hear the same things you told me.
Note: In this dialogue, the Spirit still expressed himself with contempt and sarcasm. Even so, we responded with good humor, making him feel at ease and closer to us.
6: I see, okay. We understand that difficulty. It's very difficult for us, in our daily lives, to convince ourselves that we really need to forgive a certain person, to let something go, right? Would you like to say anything else about what's going on there, like M…?
A: If she really wants my forgiveness, she should pray for me.
7: She said she was praying, did you notice?
A: I see.
8: Do you still hold a grudge?
A: It's hard to forget certain things.
9: Exactly what you're talking about now, about forgetting certain things. What was it like last time? You were here, you said you needed to be born and her only responsibility was to love you. What was this arrangement you made before you were born to make this happen?
A: We've been living a few lives together for a while now. We've had and done things together that have compromised us. So, this last time, after the knowledge we gained in the spiritual world and the guidance we received, we agreed it would be different. But she got lost. Okay, they told me I didn't cooperate either..
Note: This answer corroborates the fact that often (but not always) Spirits spend several lives involved with each other. Sometimes, even in a kind of endless cycle, transformed into persecution, in which, often, they no longer even remember what one did to the other and their own share of blame for their actions. They focus on habits of revenge, judging only the other and victimizing themselves, without considering their own actions. This is evident in "Okay, they told me I didn't cooperate either.”, where “they” is a reference to the good Spirits who help him in this process.
10: That's what I was going to ask you: do you remember if anything before made her angry with you, something you might have done?
A: I believe so. I was not a good companion to her in a previous incarnation..
Note: Helping the Spirit to perceive the good Spirits around, the good, making him feel truly welcomed and helping him remember what he himself may have done helps him to leave this state of persecution, giving way to remorse and regret.
11: I see, my friend. You seem to have been in a love-hate relationship from a carnal point of view for a long time, right? And I'd say you're one step closer to turning that into true Happiness.
R: Could it be…
12: Are you starting to notice this?
A: I've been trying to leave her alone. I can try a little harder, especially because these spirits here are always telling me I need to improve. They've already shown me the possibilities I have. It would be different if my attitudes were different. So I try not to have that feeling of revenge that still grows and insists inside me.
Note: This is a struggle for all of us. We often feel unworthy for having made mistakes, without understanding that what matters is the effort, which will not lead to relative perfection.
13: This week, when we summoned you and you didn't want to come, we said a prayer for you. What did you feel during this moment of prayer we held collectively here? At any point in that prayer did you think, "I am stronger and I will renounce this revenge"?
A: I received your prayer. I felt the love and compassion you have. Through this prayer, I felt a little more comfortable. I still need a little time to process it.
14: Carlos, did you know that you have shown yourself to be a somewhat enlightened spirit, did you know that you could help many other spirits as well?
A: That's what everyone tells me here.
15. Do you want to know that this ability – because you express yourself very well… You should try to help someone, try to help another spirit. Have you tried?
C: No.
16. No? Then try. And then we'll talk to you. You'll tell us how you felt after you helped. Is he okay? Do you promise to come tell us?
A: I'll be back, I'll be back.
17. Carlos, I'd like to ask a question, and I'm asking for help from a friendly spirit in answering this. You said that before the spirits spoke to you, they showed you certain things. Even before our conversation, what's the difference in talking to us? How does it possibly help you more than the Spirits around you?
A: The difference is that you are in the physical body. And you experience the same difficulties as me. Giving up revenge... They have a different understanding. In fact, I feel closer to you precisely because of that. So, when you speak, you understand my difficulty, because you also have the same difficulty.
Note: Kardec would say: "More bourgeois spirits (forgive us this expression) make the circumstances of the new existence in which they find themselves more tangible. In them, the connection between corporeal life and spiritual life is more intimate; we understand it better because it touches us more closely. Learning, through what they tell us, what they have become, what they think and what they experience of men of all conditions and characters, both the good and the vicious, the great and the small, the happy and the unfortunate of the century—in a word: those who lived among us, those we have seen and known, those whose real life, their virtues and their errors, we understand their joys and sufferings well. We associate with them and from them we draw a moral lesson, all the more beneficial the closer our relationship with them. We more easily put ourselves in the place of someone who was our equal than in that of someone who we only glimpse it through the mirage of a celestial glory. Ordinary Spirits show us the practical application of the great and sublime truths, whose theory the superior Spirits minister to us.” (The Mediums’ Book, item 281). As we see, the same occurs with their relationship with us. The learning is mutual.
18: We understand.
A: And when, when you try hard, do you realize how difficult it is for me?
19: We understand, thanks for the reply.
Note: Brotherhood, friends, is the word. Note that at no point do we treat this Spirit as something to be purged, but rather as someone who has allowed himself to be led astray by false ideas, just as we ourselves often do. Note that the Spirit seeks understanding, and that is why, more than words, example must speak louder.
20: We understand. And I would like to ask: Do you have anything to say directly to M… (the persecuted girl), if it is allowed?
A: I'm waiting for my change. I feel like it's possible. But I don't know yet how long it will take me to better understand what's happening.
21: Little by little, things are getting clearer, a little bit at a time.
A: Tell M… not to give up. I won't give up on improving here either.
22: We really appreciate your communication and we are very happy with you.
(To the Friendly Spirit): We would like to ask the friendly spirit if it would be possible, for a little longer, to speak with the spirit of M's grandmother…
A: I ask that you take a break for the medium for now. She felt Carlos's tension.
Note: The medium ended the communication somewhat tired, but, as she has assured us, it is nothing that lingers. The Spirit's moral emotions are momentarily reflected in his body, but, knowing that these are his issues, not hers, such emotions do not linger in his physical constitution.
Third Dialogue
1: We would like to welcome Carlos, a friendly Spirit who has been joining our goals for some time now.
A: I am here.
2: Hi, Carlos, how are you?
A: Better. I've had time to reflect and think about the things you've said. I've been busy with the spirits of light who are superior to me, learning about forgiveness, and it's doing me good.
3: We're really happy for you, and it's interesting to note that it's noticeable in the medium. Do you notice that too?
A: I notice she's lighter. She's not holding it like she used to. She doesn't contract the muscle like she used to.
Note: The medium was more relaxed and no longer displayed the sarcasm she had previously displayed, either in her speech or in her expression. The Spirit's responses also became more complete and profound, as we will see.
4: We'd like to ask you a few questions before we get to the important topic. Okay?
A: All good.
5: Thank you. Carlos, can you describe how you performed the physical manifestations?
A: That's a difficult question. I still don't understand it. But from what I perceived, it was my will. I don't know if it was connected, if that will was connected to the anger I had inside me. If there was another way I didn't realize. But it was a union of things. A union of... I'll say forces I had. M...'s thoughts. All of that came together.
6: I see. One question. You mentioned anger. We understand that anger and sadness are bodily emotions. How did you feel that anger?
A: It was a compression. Something that felt like it was holding me back. Like it was squeezing me.
7: Did you feel like it wasn't good for you?
A: It made me want to explode.
8: What did you feel after you managed to move everything and make the manifestation?
A: Almost a liberation. But then it all came back again.
9: Did you start doing it there or did you do it in other places before?
A: Only there.
10: Since your last incarnation, since you left the body, have you been connected to her? To M…? Or have you been in other places or in other environments?
A: I've been in the spirit world looking for her. But for some reason, I couldn't find her.
11: I see. Do you realize that these physical manifestations depended on the presence of someone? A medium?
A: They did depend on M… It was from her that I gathered what I needed.
Note: If this is correct, then M… is a physical effects medium and doesn't know it.
12: We understand. If you wanted to do that to hurt someone, even her… For example, throw a pan at her, or a knife, could you do it?
A: I could, but it wasn't allowed.
13: As we discussed last time, were you able to help someone, as we agreed last time? Did you have that opportunity?
A: I followed the brothers here, as I said before, to learn about forgiveness. I spoke with some spirits who were in a similar situation to mine and realized how much they, wasting time on revenge like I did, failed to see what I was seeing at that moment. There is a light far above us. It is a light that attracts us, that makes us want to touch it, to experience it, and these brothers I went to visit couldn't even see the spiritual brothers who accompanied me, and that caught my attention. It felt good, if that's what you want to know, to be able to listen to them and try to make them see what I was seeing.
14: You certainly helped them. You told them everything I was going to ask you.
A: It's my obligation, now it's my duty to help them, just as it will be my duty to help M… I'm preparing for it.
15: When you performed the phenomena at M's house… was it always just you or were there other spirits helping you with that phenomenon?
A: When I could, I called some, and that was wrong. What I do now is go to these spirits and show them that I was wrong. We have a mutual aid here: we connect through our feelings and our desires, so when we connect with those who have the same purpose as us, we help each other and end up compromising ourselves even more than we should.
16: And now that you have changed your habits and your way of thinking, do these brothers still continue in this state of thinking or have you managed to show them your new reality?
A: Unfortunately, they continue, and I feel responsible for that. It's my duty now to do for them what you did for me.
17: I would like to know how you see the space around you, now that you are no longer so attached to these purposes of revenge.
A: My friend P…, you have no idea how vast the spiritual world is. And I still haven't gotten used to seeing so far, perceiving so many things that surrounded me and I didn't notice. It's beautiful. We have no words. We see colors. We see sparkles. We see luminous trails of other, even more elevated spirits. The grandeur of everything around us is unbelievable. It's like seeing the ocean for the first time. I think even more. Much more.
18: What we see in our astronomical images of outer space, the lights and everything else, is it beautiful or is it incomparable to what you see?
A: To your eyes, the immensity of the stars, of space, is intoxicating. To us, it's so much more. Because we see all of this and more…
19: Allow me just one more question: What would you say about people who connect so many thoughts to these materialistic ideas in the afterlife, thinking that they will have to stay cloistered in houses, sleeping, eating?
A: Poor creatures. They lose what I lost. We don't have the stomach, we don't have any of that. They'll waste a lot of time. Because they bring here what they're imagining there, and they'll be lost in it until they wake up to reality, to what awaits them. And regret, my friend. Regret... It takes a long time for us to get rid of it.
20: Carlos, how can we help? Is there anything we can do for you? You seem calmer than the last few times we called.
A: Keep praying. Not just for me. Offer your prayers to all those who were in the same situation as me. And to others. A general prayer to the suffering spirits achieves its purpose. I'm still close to M…. I won't deny it. But I'm trying hard not to upset her, because I feel like she's understanding the need for forgiveness just like I am.
21: If you would like to leave us some final words, even if you are looking at us closely, we would appreciate it.
A: To you, just keep up this hard work. AM…, may she forgive me too. And forgive herself even if she doesn't know what she did. May she have faith and may she move forward in her life carefully so as not to repeat the mistakes she already made. May she love and respect those close to her. May she not abandon them. May she remain steadfast in this purpose.
22: I'll let her know. Thank you very much, okay?
A: I am grateful for the help you provided me.
The gratitude I carry within me for you will always be a beacon to keep me from getting lost in what is yet to come. May God bless you equally.
The dialogues with these Spirits brought us a wealth of learning, as well as a welcome opportunity to be useful, gaining another friend on our journey. The Spirit in question, having been evoked in a partner group, refused to communicate, but the guiding Spirit of that group mentioned that the physical phenomena were stirring pots and pans and the bed. Until then, I hadn't questioned these details—which I've always tried to do to remain impartial. When I questioned M…, the persecuted girl, about what this Spirit was doing, she confirmed that she heard pots and pans banging "by themselves."
In our first steps, we've noticed that we're still just getting started with evocations, learning to ask more in-depth questions in the time available without overwhelming the medium. We hope to soon be able to count on more partner groups.